dclocke
Sep 19, 07:37 AM
It amazes me that people can get so worked up about a processor that was only officially released three weeks ago.
It never ends either. As soon as Merom chips are in the MacBook range everyone will just move on to the next thing. When are Apple going to put quad cores in their high end products? When are the Macbooks going to be updated with Santa Rosa? When are we going to get nand cache?
It amazes me that people who are so opposed to discussion of upcoming Merom notebooks still click on the links to the forums with titles using the terms "Merom" and "MacBook Pro". If you're a regular on the forums, sure, I can see how constant discussion about the "next" platform might get old. So ignore them. Do something productive with your time. In my case, I am currently in the market for a MBP. I have two other laptops, so I don't need one. But I want one. And when it's likely that updates are imminent, it's smart in my case to wait. For that, these threads serve a purpose, by notifying me of new rumors/news that I might not find otherwise. In addition, I learned of the student ADC membership which may save me $400 on my new laptop purchase. Once I buy the notebook, I will probably not look at this site very often for a few years, when I am ready to buy a new one. So let people talk about new hardware. People who are getting ready to spend >$2000 on a laptop have every right to anticipate when the next "update" will be, so they can better time when to make their purchase.
What's funny is that even if new MacBooks and MacBook Pros were released tomorrow with the newer Merom chip, 90% of you folks in here wouldn't notice a difference in your daily computing. You would not say "OMG, this 64 bit processing and extra .16Ghz speed is AWESOME!!! I can't BELIEVE I lived without this for so long!!!" You wouldn't even notice unless someone told you.
Granted, my argument will likely place me in the other 10% of posters. But here goes anyway. Some of us aren't here because we are looking forward to a 16GHz speed increase. Some of us see other tangible benefits to a MBP update.
1. The 64-bit ISA, for a few reasons. First, what if I want to run Vista sometime down the road? Leopard will support 32-bit processors, but why not take full advantage of 64-bit capabilities when it's built in? Those of us who purchase will likely have the machine for a few years. Who knows what kinds of applications that take advantage of a 64-bit ISA will emerge during that time? Also, from a development aspect, I am looking forward to having a 64-bit machine available to me.
2. Possiblity of other upgrades, and/or a price decrease. Some changes that would be nice are: more memory as a base option (for equal or lesser price), easily replaceable HD, upgraded graphics card, etc... The list goes on. It is redundant to post this here, since it is all over the entries in this thread (and others).
When most people in this thread say "Merom", what they really mean is "notebook with a Merom processor and hopefully some other changes for the better as well." Sure, there are others who just hear the word "Merom," know it's the latest Intel chip, and want it for purely that reason. Well, you know what? They're getting ready to spend a lot of money on a machine, so they can wait for whatever they want to wait for. Give 'em a break. Let them discuss it. Let them speculate. If you get tired of it, don't read the thread. And don't be condescending towards them just because they want to feel like they made a smart purchase.
It never ends either. As soon as Merom chips are in the MacBook range everyone will just move on to the next thing. When are Apple going to put quad cores in their high end products? When are the Macbooks going to be updated with Santa Rosa? When are we going to get nand cache?
It amazes me that people who are so opposed to discussion of upcoming Merom notebooks still click on the links to the forums with titles using the terms "Merom" and "MacBook Pro". If you're a regular on the forums, sure, I can see how constant discussion about the "next" platform might get old. So ignore them. Do something productive with your time. In my case, I am currently in the market for a MBP. I have two other laptops, so I don't need one. But I want one. And when it's likely that updates are imminent, it's smart in my case to wait. For that, these threads serve a purpose, by notifying me of new rumors/news that I might not find otherwise. In addition, I learned of the student ADC membership which may save me $400 on my new laptop purchase. Once I buy the notebook, I will probably not look at this site very often for a few years, when I am ready to buy a new one. So let people talk about new hardware. People who are getting ready to spend >$2000 on a laptop have every right to anticipate when the next "update" will be, so they can better time when to make their purchase.
What's funny is that even if new MacBooks and MacBook Pros were released tomorrow with the newer Merom chip, 90% of you folks in here wouldn't notice a difference in your daily computing. You would not say "OMG, this 64 bit processing and extra .16Ghz speed is AWESOME!!! I can't BELIEVE I lived without this for so long!!!" You wouldn't even notice unless someone told you.
Granted, my argument will likely place me in the other 10% of posters. But here goes anyway. Some of us aren't here because we are looking forward to a 16GHz speed increase. Some of us see other tangible benefits to a MBP update.
1. The 64-bit ISA, for a few reasons. First, what if I want to run Vista sometime down the road? Leopard will support 32-bit processors, but why not take full advantage of 64-bit capabilities when it's built in? Those of us who purchase will likely have the machine for a few years. Who knows what kinds of applications that take advantage of a 64-bit ISA will emerge during that time? Also, from a development aspect, I am looking forward to having a 64-bit machine available to me.
2. Possiblity of other upgrades, and/or a price decrease. Some changes that would be nice are: more memory as a base option (for equal or lesser price), easily replaceable HD, upgraded graphics card, etc... The list goes on. It is redundant to post this here, since it is all over the entries in this thread (and others).
When most people in this thread say "Merom", what they really mean is "notebook with a Merom processor and hopefully some other changes for the better as well." Sure, there are others who just hear the word "Merom," know it's the latest Intel chip, and want it for purely that reason. Well, you know what? They're getting ready to spend a lot of money on a machine, so they can wait for whatever they want to wait for. Give 'em a break. Let them discuss it. Let them speculate. If you get tired of it, don't read the thread. And don't be condescending towards them just because they want to feel like they made a smart purchase.
neko girl
Mar 1, 12:30 AM
In my opinion, they should have purely platonic, nonsexual relationships with one another.
Your ignorance is staggering.
Your ignorance is staggering.
Miss Terri
Apr 7, 09:24 PM
What is the obsession with back-lit keys?
Do you actually look at the keyboard when you're typing?
Nope, I touch type.
BUT, when I'm just lying around on the couch websurfing or reading something on the screen, then my hand is on the mouse pad, and when I need to reach up to hit a command-key or type a lazy couple of words into chat, or type in a password, or etc. then I LOVE the backlit keyboard. It's amazing how often it comes in handy.
Sure, I can get along without it - my current MBP is the first computer I've had with it. But do I WANT to get along without it? NooOOOooo!
But it's not because I have to look at the keys while normally typing.
MT
Do you actually look at the keyboard when you're typing?
Nope, I touch type.
BUT, when I'm just lying around on the couch websurfing or reading something on the screen, then my hand is on the mouse pad, and when I need to reach up to hit a command-key or type a lazy couple of words into chat, or type in a password, or etc. then I LOVE the backlit keyboard. It's amazing how often it comes in handy.
Sure, I can get along without it - my current MBP is the first computer I've had with it. But do I WANT to get along without it? NooOOOooo!
But it's not because I have to look at the keys while normally typing.
MT
decimortis
Apr 6, 10:38 AM
I loves me my 11.6 ultimate and it hasn't let me down yet in the power department for my work with CS5, but of course, updated more faster, more shiny MBA's are always welcome. Can't say I'll upgrade but nice to see them progressing.
D.
D.
bad03xtreme
Apr 25, 02:28 PM
I should have become a lawyer.
SuperCachetes
Mar 5, 11:39 AM
Quite true about 'continuation', but economic models probably require that we do, in order to keep the pyramid growing at the base.
Not sure what that has to do with the price of rice in China.
I seriously doubt that would be a legitimate complaint against homosexuality, much less color it as "immoral."
Nevertheless, I know several young, married (straight), professional women who have decided not ever to have children. I can't really identify with that, but it's their choice. Should I tell them they are ****ing up our economic future? :eek:
Not sure what that has to do with the price of rice in China.
I seriously doubt that would be a legitimate complaint against homosexuality, much less color it as "immoral."
Nevertheless, I know several young, married (straight), professional women who have decided not ever to have children. I can't really identify with that, but it's their choice. Should I tell them they are ****ing up our economic future? :eek:
DakotaGuy
Aug 11, 02:43 PM
Hence cdma is and will always be a small local network that can be used in small pockets on this planet.
I would not consider the entire United States to be just a small pocket on the planet.
I would not consider the entire United States to be just a small pocket on the planet.
bibbz
Jun 11, 12:01 PM
My DM told me we can open anytime we want to no later than 8am. I have a best buy and ATT corporate store directly accross the street from me. Im waiting for them to announce when they are opening and ill be open 1 hr before them if they open at 6am, im openening at 5am.
ThinkingMac
Sep 19, 10:01 AM
umm, how about more than a simple basic update.
We need:
Firewire 800
Superdrive DL w/ OPTION FOR BLU-RAY!!!
Nvidia 7800 or 7900 option!! we need option for best vid card!! upgrade to 512 mb vram
and..... Magsafe Airplane/Auto POWER ADAPTER!!
I agree and dont forget express card 54 so we can get our CF card readers
We need:
Firewire 800
Superdrive DL w/ OPTION FOR BLU-RAY!!!
Nvidia 7800 or 7900 option!! we need option for best vid card!! upgrade to 512 mb vram
and..... Magsafe Airplane/Auto POWER ADAPTER!!
I agree and dont forget express card 54 so we can get our CF card readers
trogdor!
Jul 14, 10:20 PM
The current powermac g5's have 1 16x PCI-E slot for the video card along with 2 - 4x and 1 - 8x PCI-E slots. Video cards are about the only thing right now that can even use all 16 lanes of the PCI-E bus. I am not saying future things wont, but thats how it currently stands.
epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
PCClone
Apr 25, 02:22 PM
Look out Apple...the chattel are beginning to rise. I hope these power-hungry thugs (Apple) get taken to the cleaners. Sad that Apple now views our location as a resource to be exploited.
Why do you do nothing but troll here? You goo fans are lame.
Why do you do nothing but troll here? You goo fans are lame.
Silentwave
Aug 27, 12:19 PM
Yup, heat is no problem. :) Cost on the other hand is. Going from a 2.4 GHz Conroe from a 1.83 GHz Yonah on the low-end is roughly a 30% increase in cost JUST for the CPU.
Um....
E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz: Release price $316
T2400 Yonah 1.83GHz: Release price $294
which comic book babes do you
poison ivy comic book
poison ivy comic.
poison ivy comic book
Characters: Poison Ivy
Poison Ivy together.
Um....
E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz: Release price $316
T2400 Yonah 1.83GHz: Release price $294
aly
Aug 27, 01:38 PM
Just a few hours left, let's hope we see new MacBook Pros tomorrow, I think we'll see the new iMacs with Merom in Paris, because it's a very good announcement for consumers, and get the Pro MB's tomorrow.
As in Paris Expo? Cause I do believe that apple aren't going to be making a keynote speech. And won't make any annoucements at all or am I still believing in old news proved wrong?
As in Paris Expo? Cause I do believe that apple aren't going to be making a keynote speech. And won't make any annoucements at all or am I still believing in old news proved wrong?
macrumors12345
Apr 19, 01:50 PM
It's ambiguous whether they mean the beginning of March, the end of March, or somewhere in between. This will have a huge impact on the iPad numbers since iPad 2 didn't go on sale until March 11, and has been severely constrained since then.
Mister Snitch
Mar 31, 02:43 PM
By the end of this thread, it'll be impossible to decipher what the original story was about.
As opposed to YOUR post, which is all about the original story. Right.
As opposed to YOUR post, which is all about the original story. Right.
NATO
Aug 15, 04:49 PM
Interesting results, definitely makes me want to rob the local bank to buy a 3.0GHz Mac Pro :p
Spotted something amusing when browsing the barefeats page, an ad for the Apple store advertising 'The New Power Mac G5 Quad - Shop Now' ... Not so new now :p
Spotted something amusing when browsing the barefeats page, an ad for the Apple store advertising 'The New Power Mac G5 Quad - Shop Now' ... Not so new now :p
Zadillo
Aug 27, 06:04 AM
Damn PowerPC fans.
Apple is INTEL now. We Love Intel Because Stevie Tells Us So.
We hate AMD and IBM. Should Apple ever move to another CPU provider, we will seamlessly transition to hating Intel again. This is the Way of the Mac.
What's so good about G5's anyway? They are slow, too hot, and skull juice.
Why do we love Intel? Because Steve says to, and Core 2 Duo is powerful, cool, not permanently drunk, allows us to run Windows and helps Apple increase its market share.
We love ATi because just like Intel, their products are the best at the moment. We still love nVIDIA because their GPUs are in the Mac Pro.
We love Israel because they make our Core 2 Duos and we love China because they make our Macs. We love California because that's where Our Lord Stevie J is (Don't particularly care about the rest of the US, sorry guys).
We love our Big Cats because they run so fast and look so clean and powerful (Hmmm... Mystery of OS codenames revealed?) and of course because they are not Windows, which are susceptible to breaking...
People who live in Windows shouldn't throw Viruses?
Off track...
Anyway, Rawr to all you PowerPC fanboys (And girls)
Intel 4EVER!
I know this is just a joke, but even so it's stupid, because the implication is that the only reason anyone here might like the chips Intel is coming out with is because they have been brainwashed into liking them now that Apple uses them (i.e. if Apple was still using PowerPC chips, or had switched to AMD, we would all be sitting here talking about how crappy the Core 2 Duo chips are).
I'm sure there are some people like that, but it is insulting to plenty of people here who actually do know something about the various chips that Intel and AMD make and base their opinions on them just on their actual merits and weaknesses.
-Zadillo
Apple is INTEL now. We Love Intel Because Stevie Tells Us So.
We hate AMD and IBM. Should Apple ever move to another CPU provider, we will seamlessly transition to hating Intel again. This is the Way of the Mac.
What's so good about G5's anyway? They are slow, too hot, and skull juice.
Why do we love Intel? Because Steve says to, and Core 2 Duo is powerful, cool, not permanently drunk, allows us to run Windows and helps Apple increase its market share.
We love ATi because just like Intel, their products are the best at the moment. We still love nVIDIA because their GPUs are in the Mac Pro.
We love Israel because they make our Core 2 Duos and we love China because they make our Macs. We love California because that's where Our Lord Stevie J is (Don't particularly care about the rest of the US, sorry guys).
We love our Big Cats because they run so fast and look so clean and powerful (Hmmm... Mystery of OS codenames revealed?) and of course because they are not Windows, which are susceptible to breaking...
People who live in Windows shouldn't throw Viruses?
Off track...
Anyway, Rawr to all you PowerPC fanboys (And girls)
Intel 4EVER!
I know this is just a joke, but even so it's stupid, because the implication is that the only reason anyone here might like the chips Intel is coming out with is because they have been brainwashed into liking them now that Apple uses them (i.e. if Apple was still using PowerPC chips, or had switched to AMD, we would all be sitting here talking about how crappy the Core 2 Duo chips are).
I'm sure there are some people like that, but it is insulting to plenty of people here who actually do know something about the various chips that Intel and AMD make and base their opinions on them just on their actual merits and weaknesses.
-Zadillo
roadbloc
Mar 26, 06:43 PM
I'm glad rosetta is going away. Maybe the dev will finally update the app.
By saying that you clearly misunderstand the idea of a legacy app. Say I have an old PPC game that I still enjoy to play. Why on earth would the dev want to update the old game to work in intel, especially if the dev is busy with new and more profitable endeavours?
Windows manages to run legacy apps still. Even if you do have to resort to using the virtual machine they've called 'XP Mode.'
Fortunately, my one and only PPC program does indeed have an intel version that I wasn't aware of, so I'm fine.
By saying that you clearly misunderstand the idea of a legacy app. Say I have an old PPC game that I still enjoy to play. Why on earth would the dev want to update the old game to work in intel, especially if the dev is busy with new and more profitable endeavours?
Windows manages to run legacy apps still. Even if you do have to resort to using the virtual machine they've called 'XP Mode.'
Fortunately, my one and only PPC program does indeed have an intel version that I wasn't aware of, so I'm fine.
shawnce
Jul 20, 05:56 PM
...
and ECC memory
and dual GigE network ports
Current PowerMacs have both of these... it supports ECC and has dual GigE
and ECC memory
and dual GigE network ports
Current PowerMacs have both of these... it supports ECC and has dual GigE
Digital Skunk
Mar 22, 01:05 PM
Can I exchange my iPad 2 for this Playbook?
I really like the minimal app appearance of the Playbook compared to Apple's cluttered group of tens of thousands of applications.
Hopefully Apple will take a cue from that.
I too do hate the way iOS looks on the home screen. It wreaks of tacky 4 year old OS.
I might have to go back and edit my first comment to be clearer.
I can leave the OS behind, but it's the 3rd party apps that I long for on a tablet. It's too bad that these guys don't port their apps over toe Android.
+1
'lets make a tablet for our business users, to get serious workloads done. we can call it the playbook'.
i didn't know charlie sheen was in charge of their team?
Playbook . . . as in what sport coaches use to hold their plays . . . e.g. their next moves, their plans on winning the game.
I really like the minimal app appearance of the Playbook compared to Apple's cluttered group of tens of thousands of applications.
Hopefully Apple will take a cue from that.
I too do hate the way iOS looks on the home screen. It wreaks of tacky 4 year old OS.
I might have to go back and edit my first comment to be clearer.
I can leave the OS behind, but it's the 3rd party apps that I long for on a tablet. It's too bad that these guys don't port their apps over toe Android.
+1
'lets make a tablet for our business users, to get serious workloads done. we can call it the playbook'.
i didn't know charlie sheen was in charge of their team?
Playbook . . . as in what sport coaches use to hold their plays . . . e.g. their next moves, their plans on winning the game.
Steviejobz
Apr 8, 05:22 AM
This story fails the smell test. A reader told MacRumors? You mean a disgruntled fanboy who has gone iPad-less for two weeks has turned conspiracy theorist?
All I can say is that there was an inventory tracker on one of these threads and each time it said "in store only" I was able to walk into that store and buy one.
The second time I bought a unit there were guys carrying boxes of iPads that had just arrived and sold them freely until gone.
All I can say is that there was an inventory tracker on one of these threads and each time it said "in store only" I was able to walk into that store and buy one.
The second time I bought a unit there were guys carrying boxes of iPads that had just arrived and sold them freely until gone.
BWhaler
Aug 26, 06:49 PM
Only if you have no sense of humour! :p
It's not really that.
It's just that the joke is soooo done. Played out.
It's time to turn the page.
It's not really that.
It's just that the joke is soooo done. Played out.
It's time to turn the page.
gnasher729
Jul 20, 05:12 PM
I think Reverse Hyperthreading will have to be processor-bound, like Hyperthreading. Intel has its mitosis project, so let's hope that works out well!
There is no such thing as "Reverse Hyperthreading". This has been completely debunked.
There is no such thing as "Reverse Hyperthreading". This has been completely debunked.
