epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
MrCrowbar
Aug 19, 06:08 PM
!!!! DON'T DO THE SMC FIRMWARE UPDATE !!!!
Sorry to post it here, but I think it's urgent.
This update "fixes" tha Macbook fans. After the update, they (the fans) basically run at full speed all the time. They only stop once your CPU is below 50°C.
Sorry to post it here, but I think it's urgent.
This update "fixes" tha Macbook fans. After the update, they (the fans) basically run at full speed all the time. They only stop once your CPU is below 50°C.
Gupster
Apr 7, 10:38 PM
:mad:Best Buy told me today that they had them in but Apple would not let them sell them. I have been going for two weeks every other day and they finally tell me they have them and can't sell them. I hate this crap. I want my IPad 2.
Amazing Iceman
Mar 31, 05:27 PM
Really? :confused:
I always perceived it as everyone against Apple. Just read the comments on any tech site anytime Apple launches a new product. "This has fail written all over it".... "only iSheep will buy this crap"...... blah, blah, blah.
The amount of people who never bought an Apple product, but will still log-on to blast away at anything Apple is really quite amusing. ;)
Yeah. Some people don't realize that the final words are reflected in the Financial Reports, Quarterly Earnings, etc.
Regardless of what surveys may reveal, the final word is in the $$$ it keeps generating.
Being this the case, I want to be a total failure, just like Apple. They are failing so hard, their earnings are out of control... Too much money for them to handle. What a failure! :D
I always perceived it as everyone against Apple. Just read the comments on any tech site anytime Apple launches a new product. "This has fail written all over it".... "only iSheep will buy this crap"...... blah, blah, blah.
The amount of people who never bought an Apple product, but will still log-on to blast away at anything Apple is really quite amusing. ;)
Yeah. Some people don't realize that the final words are reflected in the Financial Reports, Quarterly Earnings, etc.
Regardless of what surveys may reveal, the final word is in the $$$ it keeps generating.
Being this the case, I want to be a total failure, just like Apple. They are failing so hard, their earnings are out of control... Too much money for them to handle. What a failure! :D
Cameront9
Aug 7, 05:02 PM
Like the whole 3ghz thing?
Ahh, but that was a different situation. In that case, Steve said that, but was dependent on IBM to make it come true.
In this Case, steve is only dependent on his own company to make it come true.
And did anyone else laugh today when they showed the top of the line Mac Pro--at 3Ghz?
Ahh, but that was a different situation. In that case, Steve said that, but was dependent on IBM to make it come true.
In this Case, steve is only dependent on his own company to make it come true.
And did anyone else laugh today when they showed the top of the line Mac Pro--at 3Ghz?
TangoCharlie
Jul 20, 11:27 AM
Somehow I doubt that Intel would change thier roadmap for/because of Apple. They are probably one of their smallest customers :P
I did say that it was WILD speculation. Maybe I should get a job at ThinkSecret?! :rolleyes:
I did say that it was WILD speculation. Maybe I should get a job at ThinkSecret?! :rolleyes:
DoFoT9
Aug 8, 07:12 PM
i don't know, i still think the Gran Turismo series is the best as far as real driving simulation. by far. and the number of copies sold backs that up
given that its been out for 10 years, i think it would have sold a fair few no matter what :rolleyes: i preferred GT3 A-Spec over anything else.
yeah i still might pre-order the special edition one. i'm not sure yet
do we have an official date yet? or will that be pushed back too :D
given that its been out for 10 years, i think it would have sold a fair few no matter what :rolleyes: i preferred GT3 A-Spec over anything else.
yeah i still might pre-order the special edition one. i'm not sure yet
do we have an official date yet? or will that be pushed back too :D
portishead
Apr 12, 12:28 PM
Why are you endorsing lack of improvement?
Nooooo not at all. You missed my next post with my feature requests. I'm just giving people a hard time about complaining that FCP isn't good enough. It has bugs, and it's quirky, but it mostly works.
Nooooo not at all. You missed my next post with my feature requests. I'm just giving people a hard time about complaining that FCP isn't good enough. It has bugs, and it's quirky, but it mostly works.
Ja Di ksw
Aug 25, 05:15 PM
I would just like to say that every time I have dealth with Apple's help (blue line on screen, crack on trackpad, melted power brick cord, ordering, etc), they have been superb. Very professional, very helpful, and very quick. Does this add much to the discussion? No, but too often we only hear the bad, so I wanted to put in some good as well.
Stridder44
Mar 26, 05:00 AM
This seems a little fast for the first GM. Maybe not such a big update after all? Where are all the secrets? The UI could use more of an overhaul IMO. This is probably just for the devs and they will bust out some fancy fancy at WWDC. I hope! Gotta have that one more thing...
I hope Lion lives up to the name and is BEAST.
Exactly how I feel about it. I mean it feels like they just told us about it. We're just now starting to get rumors and tips about the new OS. Windows 8 isn't slated to come out until Q4 2012. Take your time Apple. Snow Leopard is a fantastic and very stable OS. PLEASE don't rush Lion! Take your time to iron out the bugs, and add more stuff in if need be.
I hope Lion lives up to the name and is BEAST.
Exactly how I feel about it. I mean it feels like they just told us about it. We're just now starting to get rumors and tips about the new OS. Windows 8 isn't slated to come out until Q4 2012. Take your time Apple. Snow Leopard is a fantastic and very stable OS. PLEASE don't rush Lion! Take your time to iron out the bugs, and add more stuff in if need be.
aohus
Apr 19, 02:44 PM
Who said Apple created the first GUI.
Jobs himself credits Xerox for their GUI. :rolleyes:
well, it looks as though a lot of users here still believe that Apple is the father of the GUI, when its clearly not.
Jobs himself credits Xerox for their GUI. :rolleyes:
well, it looks as though a lot of users here still believe that Apple is the father of the GUI, when its clearly not.
ghall
Aug 25, 02:59 PM
Hey, I'm not about to complain, they sent me a brand new MacBook Pro (even though I was on hold for an hour). Yeah, I have certainly noticed longer hold times on the support lines. Crazy, huh?
aly
Aug 27, 01:38 PM
Just a few hours left, let's hope we see new MacBook Pros tomorrow, I think we'll see the new iMacs with Merom in Paris, because it's a very good announcement for consumers, and get the Pro MB's tomorrow.
As in Paris Expo? Cause I do believe that apple aren't going to be making a keynote speech. And won't make any annoucements at all or am I still believing in old news proved wrong?
As in Paris Expo? Cause I do believe that apple aren't going to be making a keynote speech. And won't make any annoucements at all or am I still believing in old news proved wrong?
Ivabign
Apr 6, 03:58 PM
Nice...I'm glad to have a more rare piece of hardware. I love mine and have no issues, it'll only get better over time.Reminds me of the days of the RAZR, that's what the iPhone and iPad have become.
Honda sells a TON more cars than BMW by a huge factor...I'd rather drive a BMW, I guess you're all happy with the Hondas :)
I think if you were told you could only use unpaved roads in your BMW - you'd beat a path to your Honda dealer.
Honda sells a TON more cars than BMW by a huge factor...I'd rather drive a BMW, I guess you're all happy with the Hondas :)
I think if you were told you could only use unpaved roads in your BMW - you'd beat a path to your Honda dealer.
demeni
Mar 31, 04:04 PM
Having had an Android phone I can say that the experience was mixed at best. It has potential to compete with IOS but the openess is hurting the overall customer experience not so much because of Google but more because of the attitude and the thoughtlessness of the manufacturers, and in the UK, the network providers.
You couldn't update the software because the manufacturer had to first add its layers to Android and then the network had to cripple it with their rubbish so you couldn't forget who you had a contract with. So updates were virtually non existent unless you rooted and the manufacturer was doing its best to make sure you couldn't do that.
What a farce! And now they want to impose this on people buying tablets!
Android is doomed because of the same problems that haunt Windoze - no control over the hardware / software marriage so nothing will ever be robust enough. It'll never 'Just work'. I do still like some Google stuff (search engine / email) and Apple needs the threat of competition. They need to concentrate on their hardware / software efforts and forget about an open Mobile OS.
You couldn't update the software because the manufacturer had to first add its layers to Android and then the network had to cripple it with their rubbish so you couldn't forget who you had a contract with. So updates were virtually non existent unless you rooted and the manufacturer was doing its best to make sure you couldn't do that.
What a farce! And now they want to impose this on people buying tablets!
Android is doomed because of the same problems that haunt Windoze - no control over the hardware / software marriage so nothing will ever be robust enough. It'll never 'Just work'. I do still like some Google stuff (search engine / email) and Apple needs the threat of competition. They need to concentrate on their hardware / software efforts and forget about an open Mobile OS.
nevir
Sep 19, 12:15 PM
My demanding you to give me a reason has about the same weight as all the people in this thread (and many others) demanding Apple provide them with the machine they think they needed yesterday.
It's more along the lines of "We see all these other laptop manufacturers releasing new CPU's in their products. We see that Apple has already recieved these chips. We feel that it is extremely likely that Apple's laptop lines will be updated with these CPU's, and soon. Finally, We don't want to buy a product that will be outdated in just a month or two.
Of course, there's those who have been waiting for more than a couple months. For those, they are looking to 'future-proof' their machine, somewhat. If you notice, more or less every new CPU model that will be coming out is 64-bit, and there's no doubt that developers will write apps that take advantage of that architecture in the coming years. So why buy a computer that has a lower likliehood of supporting all the software you'd like to run over it's lifetime?
As for "needing it yesterday", that is a product of the hype; but I think, for the most part, we feel that the laptops could have been ready earlier - and certainly would have liked Apple to have come out and said "MBP updates soonish" (of course that makes no business sense for clearing inventory though).
It's more along the lines of "We see all these other laptop manufacturers releasing new CPU's in their products. We see that Apple has already recieved these chips. We feel that it is extremely likely that Apple's laptop lines will be updated with these CPU's, and soon. Finally, We don't want to buy a product that will be outdated in just a month or two.
Of course, there's those who have been waiting for more than a couple months. For those, they are looking to 'future-proof' their machine, somewhat. If you notice, more or less every new CPU model that will be coming out is 64-bit, and there's no doubt that developers will write apps that take advantage of that architecture in the coming years. So why buy a computer that has a lower likliehood of supporting all the software you'd like to run over it's lifetime?
As for "needing it yesterday", that is a product of the hype; but I think, for the most part, we feel that the laptops could have been ready earlier - and certainly would have liked Apple to have come out and said "MBP updates soonish" (of course that makes no business sense for clearing inventory though).
nsjoker
Aug 17, 01:41 AM
lol you mac folk and your photoshop :D
let's get some game benchmarks :rolleyes:
let's get some game benchmarks :rolleyes:
mc68k
Dec 6, 06:02 PM
yeah the AI driver is piss poor at overtaking. it's all racing lines and he'll only overtake on a sharp turn or on a long straight. even with a significantly more powerful car the driver won't always come out on top. i remember in GT4 you could drop out of bspec into aspec and you could also speed up a race by several times to make the enduros go faster. so far i haven't seen this functionality in gt5?
the car trading sounds like fun. do u trade for car/car or car/$ or just gift back and forth? do both players have to be online at the same time?
thanks for the tips on the different car settings. i haven't been frustrated enough to try these out yet, but every little bit would help with those top gear tracks. i got so annoyed with the VW Bus and the lotus one that i just gave up and did other stuff. what did you get for completing the lotus/top gear?
the car trading sounds like fun. do u trade for car/car or car/$ or just gift back and forth? do both players have to be online at the same time?
thanks for the tips on the different car settings. i haven't been frustrated enough to try these out yet, but every little bit would help with those top gear tracks. i got so annoyed with the VW Bus and the lotus one that i just gave up and did other stuff. what did you get for completing the lotus/top gear?
leekohler
Apr 28, 04:28 PM
Well he's obviously American! Just look at him! ;)
Yeah, I wanna know why he is "obviously" born in the US, and Obama isn't/couldn't be.
Yeah, I wanna know why he is "obviously" born in the US, and Obama isn't/couldn't be.
grue
Apr 11, 08:39 PM
Overreact much? FCP hasn't even been announced and your company is already talking about jumping ship? I call b.s. I'm in LA and I haven't heard anyone talking about switching anything. What needed features do you need that don't already exist?
How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?
How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?
�stability?
�QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?
�better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?
�GPGPU/OpenCL?
etc etc
How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?
How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?
�stability?
�QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?
�better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?
�GPGPU/OpenCL?
etc etc
uv23
Jul 31, 12:07 PM
Apple will never ship a desktop machine so close in size to the mini. Impractical and too much market confusion. I'm expecting a ~25% decrease in size of the current G5 tower, making it more mid-tower sized. This would still be an improvement to the current behemoths.
LagunaSol
Apr 11, 04:24 PM
Browsing the Internet, Calendar, Checking Mail, Listening to songs, Texting, Multitasking, Notifications, Cut-Copy-Paste, ability to open and use Office files, basic tools like Currency converters, To-Do lists etc. These are what i believe encompasses in a "smartphone", and here's the newsflash: Android OS meets them perfectly.
"Perfectly?" Really?
I can do everything you listed above in iOS just as well as Android - and in many cases better - except in the area of notifications. An area in which iOS truly does suck. How Apple has not yet fixed this boggles the mind.
The iPhone was late on MMS, Multitasking, Cut-Copy-Paste, and now it's going to be a notification system.
If you're going to use "late" as a barometer of success, Android was "later" than iOS at doing just about everything else.
Plus, browsing the internet and checking mail is much better on a bigger screen.
Yep, like an...iPad? :p
I feel the App Store is just an added feature, and that's why i'd get an iPod Touch for.
Of course. Those bajillion apps, most of which completely destroy Android in quality, are an unimportant aside.
Android OS already has the "smartphone" features down, and they're just working on the bonus features such as the Android App Store.
If Google thinks like you - that the App Store is merely a "bonus feature" - this war will be won by Apple.
"Perfectly?" Really?
I can do everything you listed above in iOS just as well as Android - and in many cases better - except in the area of notifications. An area in which iOS truly does suck. How Apple has not yet fixed this boggles the mind.
The iPhone was late on MMS, Multitasking, Cut-Copy-Paste, and now it's going to be a notification system.
If you're going to use "late" as a barometer of success, Android was "later" than iOS at doing just about everything else.
Plus, browsing the internet and checking mail is much better on a bigger screen.
Yep, like an...iPad? :p
I feel the App Store is just an added feature, and that's why i'd get an iPod Touch for.
Of course. Those bajillion apps, most of which completely destroy Android in quality, are an unimportant aside.
Android OS already has the "smartphone" features down, and they're just working on the bonus features such as the Android App Store.
If Google thinks like you - that the App Store is merely a "bonus feature" - this war will be won by Apple.
deyorew
Mar 22, 04:24 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)
Yeah, it's kind of like The Beatles. Sure there are other bands out there that are great. But for some reason, people will never care about them as much as they do the beatles.
Yeah, it's kind of like The Beatles. Sure there are other bands out there that are great. But for some reason, people will never care about them as much as they do the beatles.
LagunaSol
Apr 6, 03:26 PM
Congrats, you will be able to play with the handful of apps designed for it.
;)
But hey, haven't you heard, Honeycomb is a real tablet OS. (Whatever the heck that means.)
Google must have used that line in a PowerPoint somewhere because I see it regurgitated verbatim on every single iPad vs. Honeycomb thread.
The Google brainwashing continues. ;)
;)
But hey, haven't you heard, Honeycomb is a real tablet OS. (Whatever the heck that means.)
Google must have used that line in a PowerPoint somewhere because I see it regurgitated verbatim on every single iPad vs. Honeycomb thread.
The Google brainwashing continues. ;)
